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Library Board Votes To Remove Executive Director

After a tense special meeting Thursday, the board passed a motion on a 4–3 vote to prepare and execute a separation agreement with director Ben Schapiro.

 

Board members of the Morton Grove Public Library passed a motion to oust Executive Director Ben Schapiro at a contentious meeting Thursday.

Following a 4–3 vote, the board decided to prepare a separation agreement with Schapiro and authorized President Mark Albers to execute the agreement. All four of the board members who voted yes to the measure are recently elected members who ran under the party name B-PAC, which is an acronym of the last names of Paul Berg, Catherine Peters, Albers and David Calimag. Secretary Daniel Hoffman, Arthur Goldstein and Christa Quinn all voted against the motion.

Visibly upset after the vote, Hoffman gave an unexpected announcement.

 “I will remain on the board, but not as secretary,” Hoffman said. He declined to say any more than that when approached by Patch after the meeting was adjourned.

Relations between members of the library board have been far from hunky-dory since the B-PAC members swept library elections in April, winning a majority presence and appointing Albers to president. A major point of debate has been the prospect of a forensic audit being conducted on the library’s finances.

An agenda for the meeting indicated only that it would focus on the retention of legal counsel, as well as a decision regarding the “appointment, employment, compensation, discipline, performance or dismissal,” of a specific unnamed employee. The agenda gave little away, but it soon became apparent that there were serious matters at hand.

Shortly after roll call, Trustee Goldstein asked to make a statement. He said there were decisions already made on the board between certain members in advance to calling the session.

“In my opinion, this meeting is completely out of order,” said Goldstein. He called the proceedings "somewhat unethical."

Albers briskly thanked him for his statement and kept things moving to an executive session to decide on the retention of legal counsel, law firm Wolf and Tennant. As per village rules, the executive sessions were held away from the public, with citizens only allowed back into the boardroom for the official vote on the issue.

About 30 minutes later, residents were allowed back in to witness the board vote 4–3 to retain Wolf and Tennant. 

Prior to voting to remove Schapiro, the board held another executive session, this one lasting more than an hour. Yelling from inside the heated board room could be heard by meeting-goers waiting outside.

Tensions eventually leaked outside the boardroom doors. At one point a loud male voice inside the room bellowed, “That was not why the levy was raised this year!”

This fueled a debate outside the room among residents about the recent tax levy and sparked a brief altercation between former library trustee Renee Miller and treasurer Peters' husband, Gil.

What began with bickering and snide remarks launched from both sides soon escalated to screaming and name-calling, and ended with the other residents intervening to separate the two after Gil approached the woman.

“We have enough of that in there; we don’t need that out here,” one resident said, pleading for civility.

As of press time, it was unclear why exactly the board wanted to remove Schapiro, and officials at the meeting declined to comment on the topic, citing that executive session rules prohibited the discussion of topics addressed during the private deliberations. Patch was unable to reach Schapiro in time for publication.

Casey Faust

1:58 pm on Friday, July 8, 2011

This is shameful behavior. Decisions made before the board meeting? Why is the forensic audit NOT being done? It was one of the major reasons B-PAC ran on for the election, now it has been delayed for the last two months. Why would Mr. Peters approach a woman over a difference of opinion! Shameful.

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Dan Goldberg

8:38 am on Sunday, July 10, 2011

Audits are used to find inefficiencies and correct them. It's not a bad thing when dealing with public money, especially if there are questions from the public. To be conducted properly, time is needed for preparation. There is a methodology to the process. Forensic auditors begin by taking all the accounts, inventories, assets, capital and other economic elements and determining how they should work together. To use a hypothetical example, if an auditor sees that a business grosses $1 million a year, assumptions are that the cash, new capital, inventories, taxes, payroll, rent and other costs add up to $1 million. Then looking at the profits, cash, et al. and checks how they ought to interact (e.g. in some cases, there is an systemic overlap between certain values, which the accountant would make note of so as not overcount). Once collected, all of the reported values (as well as caveats) establishing a model for how the each side of the balance sheet should read is the goal. This is to help make sure income and expenses are all being allocated properly and efficiently. Maximizing efficient use of income and assets is a good thing, but a proper review to find the correct outcome takes time and preparation to do it properly, even before the auditor is called in. I don't think this new Board has been in office more than a couple of months? Worth keeping an eye on, but a little patience and understanding my help us better understand the process.

PROLibraryMG

2:08 pm on Friday, July 8, 2011

Good luck to the B-PAC in finding another director who can maintain an outdated building, keep the patrons and staff happy, and still stay within budget. Ben Schapiro, you will be missed dearly.

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Janice Cha

2:47 pm on Friday, July 8, 2011

(Ade, good job on summarizing a difficult board meeting.)

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Larry Levin

4:30 pm on Friday, July 8, 2011

It was my good fortune to serve on the Morton Grove Public Library Board for a little over a year. And it was a privilege and a pleasure to work with Ben Schapiro. He is a man of great intelligence, heartfelt compassion and unimpeachable integrity, as well as a passionate believer in the future of the Morton Grove Public Library (although I suspect that view may have been somewhat compromised by the actions of the 4 recently elected members of the board). I know that all of us who truly love our Library appreciate all that Ben and his staff have done for us, and we wish only the best for Ben in his future endeavors.

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Renée Miller

6:32 am on Saturday, July 9, 2011

Ben Schapiro was one of the best things to happen to the Morton Grove Public Library. I had the good fortune to serve on the board under two excellent directors, both of whom worked to advance the services of the library. When Sharron retired and Ben took over he was pretty much an unknown quantity. He proceeded to take a wonderfully run library and continue to make it one of the best libraries on the North Shore. In fact, under his leadership, we were voted the best library in the North Suburban Library system.
Firing Ben in a spiteful, somewhat unintelligent move on the part of the new board. They think in the 12th century and believe that libraries should have only books. Libraries are much more than books in the 21st century and Ben had much to do with making our antiquated building produce usefulness by using every possible inch of space that could safely be used by the public. With the help of an amazing library staff, the library moved rapidly into the new century in all areas of technology as well as keeping it stocked with books for those who still prefer that medium.
Firing Ben was not a smart move, but then the new members of the board do not come across showing a great deal of intelligence in library matters. Most of them had never even been in the library until they suddenly began appearing at board meetings late in 2010 at which time they began making untrue accusations based on information that was obtained from someone who did not follow the proper ethics.

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Jill Alali

6:44 am on Saturday, July 9, 2011

This is absolutely sickening! My children and I have been regular library patrons for the past 8 years and it was obvious when Ben Shapiro took the helm in that the library just really began to soar to a whole new, amazing level. He is intelligent, approachable, visionary and Morton Grove was lucky to have him. If these new board members really were operating with the best of intentions for our library then the last thing they should have done was vote to remove Ben Shapiro. There is absolutely no valid reason for why he should have been removed. Truly shameful!

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SAB

8:21 am on Saturday, July 9, 2011

"Shocking...sickening...unethical." There are many words that can and should be used to describe the actions of the new BPAC library board majority. But "surprising" cannot be one of them. These individuals showed their true colors during the campaign--from working to get the dedicated, hard-working incumbent trustees kicked off the ballot to their almost weekly inventions of made-up accusations that worked brilliantly to bring out the 8% of Morton Grove residents (a pathetic percentage when one considers that was enough to sweep them in) who were scared into voting for them.

This is what happens when the majority of residents -- especially the 11,000+ library card holders--sit out of local elections. I fear Ben Schapiro's unfortunate resignation is only the beginning of the dismantling of the Morton grove public library by the BPAC majority. Upset residents should-at the very least- show up the the upcoming board meeting to register their disapproval and outrage.

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Laura Frisch

9:05 am on Saturday, July 9, 2011

This is a sad day for the Morton Grove library and our community. The library has become a community center, in large part thanks to Ben Schapiro and the fantastic staff at the library. Although this was done in executive session, all board meetings and committee meetings are open to the public and fall under the open meetings act. Please be an informed citizen and attend the next Board meeting and see for yourself what Albers, Berg, Calimag and Peters are doing to OUR library. Feel free to speak and make your comments known at the start of the meeting at 7am on this Thursday. You may want to get there early, bring coffee and a notepad. One of the 19 promises from the Bpac was to move the board meeting to the Baxter Room, let's see if they can fulfill at least that one.

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Laura Frisch

9:06 am on Saturday, July 9, 2011

Pardon me, that would 7pm and they do tend to last for several hours, if you can not get there early.

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Cynthia Levin

10:02 am on Saturday, July 9, 2011

Thank you, Patch.com, for covering the tone of this meeting as well as the content.

I'm sorry it came to this point for Mr. Schapiro. His leadership helped our library flourish and I will miss his presence greatly. I hope he finds a job with people who appreciate his talents and vision.

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C Carmody

2:35 pm on Saturday, July 9, 2011

This story and what I have heard from fellow citizens about this meeting makes me wonder what BPAC stands FOR.

It is clear that they are *against* Ben Schapiro; *against* progressive uses of a library, which apparently should be only for books & learning to use computers, certainly not for hands-on learning through something as engaging of young minds as gardening; *against* separate 501(c)3 volunteer organizations such as the Friends supporting the activities of the library because they can't control them. I am concerned that they are not for our library. Time will tell.

Best wishes to Ben Schapiro, who has worked hard to invigorate our aging library.

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Jennifer Alvarado

3:01 pm on Saturday, July 9, 2011

B-PAC has been in the majority of the board for only a few months and already the library is getting flushed down the toilet. First almost nixing a donated garden, now this?!? Ben Schapiro has made the library an accomodating and welcoming place to visit and learn. I am sickened to hear this and what future this B-PAC group has in store for the residents of Morton Grove. I am thoroughly disgusted!!! As my kids would say, how about a 'do-over' on election day? I wonder if the people who voted for B-PAC even go to the library or care about it's future. GEESH!

Best wishes to Ben Schapiro and his future endeavors.

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Audrey H

3:18 pm on Saturday, July 9, 2011

Wow, such strong opinions being expressed based on no facts. Nobody knows why the board requested Shapiro's resignation, or why Shapiro submitted his resignation. Nobody knows what happed, except the board and Shapiro. It is not known publicly if there were drastically conflicting goals and vision for the future of the library, or a demonstrated inability to work together, or if anything inappropriate had been done in the past, or if Shapiro just didn't want to work under new leadership and resigned. Maybe he even found a new job and just resigned. Such accusations only serve to continue to divide the residents of this village and the whole community, and it is such a shame because it is only assumptions and fear that is driving this gossip, not any facts. We have a wonderful village, and a wonderful library, but making assumptions about what happened in those meetings or why Shaprio resigned is inappropriate at this time. Maybe we'll eventually learn that there was "shameful" and "unethical" behavior by to other side, not the new board. We need to wait for more facts to come to light. In the meantime, put aside the fear, the emotion, the assumptions and be calm, be adults, be respectful of your neighbords and those trying to do the best they can in a tough situation.

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Daniel Marconi

5:17 pm on Saturday, July 9, 2011

Wow Miss Audrey: Can't believe you state that no facts exist yet you assume Mr. Shapiro resigned. The beginning of the article states

"Board members of the Morton Grove Public Library passed a motion to oust Executive Director Ben Schapiro at a contentious meeting Thursday." How do you consider this not to be a fact let alone not even a resignation but a removal. I'm pretty sure you and the rest of BPAC will learn that your behavior is "shameful" and "unethical". Where's the forensic audit? Huh? When's that gonna happen? It's not going to happen because they are coming to the conclusions themselves that it would be unnecessary. Further, retention of Wolf & Tennant's services are most likely tied to the decision to remove Mr. Shapiro as they need guidance in case of any wrongful termination litigation in the future. So, Ms. Audrey, get a clue.

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Dan Goldberg

8:14 am on Sunday, July 10, 2011

Even IF Shapiro's employment was terminated, Illinois is an "employment at-will" state, meaning that an employer or employee may terminate the relationship at any time, without any reason or cause. The employer, however, cannot discriminate based on race, color, religion, sex, national origin, ancestry, citizenship status, age, marital status, physical or mental handicap, military service or unfavorable military discharge. Notice is not required by either party based on the doctrine of "employment at-will.

Renée Miller

5:30 pm on Saturday, July 9, 2011

Daniel, nice to hear someone who can think for himself and is not intimidated by others who wouldn't know a fact if it bit them on the nose!

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Lizzy T

8:09 pm on Saturday, July 9, 2011

Are we back at this again? I had quite enough of this during the election, everyone to act like adults please. One group won the election fair and square, sometimes hard to accept for those who did not persuade enough people to vote for them but that's what happened. This isn't grammar school, do-overs will occur during the next election. Let's watch what this Board does, but also give them time to accomplish what they promised the people too? This story said two completely things different things, one was "prepare a separation agreement" (whatever that is) then later said "ousted" which seems more opinion since nobody has confirmed anything to the contrary? Accusations of dismantling the library, unethical-shameful behavior do seem most inflamatory in tone. I rarely agree with Mr. Kansoer's viewpoints, but here he seems to be correct. Besides, I thought the Board approved the garden? And when did the story mention anything about the Friend of the Library? It may be summer when everyone is hot, but I hope everyone takes time to cool down and look, look at the facts and stop all this negative commentary until then.

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Pat Craig

8:25 am on Sunday, July 10, 2011

As Mr. Poders said, the truth will come out in due time. In the meantime, what we are getting here is idle gossip, speculation and vitriol... much heat and little light... entertaining though.

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Laura Frisch

9:28 am on Sunday, July 10, 2011

Mr. Kansoer is very fast to dismiss this as news and mocks the firing of a Library Director and the concerned residents who have made their voice heard in this forum. This is the future of our library at stake, one of the important community centers for our village. I wonder why Mr. Kansoer is trying to bury this story and stop any further discussion in this open forum? Every resident should have the right to be heard and Patch.com offers this forum to our community at no cost to the tax payers. How much did Albers, Peters, Berg and Calimag, the four library trustees who voted to hire two additional attorneys, cost the tax payers of Morton Grove this past week alone?

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Pat Craig

9:55 am on Sunday, July 10, 2011

Actually Ms. Frisch, Mr. Kansoer waited a few days and re-read the story. I still don't have any evidence that the director was fired, (I was at that meeting as were you and the board voted 4-3 to authorize a separation agreement). Since the decision was made in executive session, unless a board member is giving you information about what happened, in violation of their legal duties, you are speculating as to the nature and motive behind the board's action.

Regarding "burying" this "story", I have no power to do that. I do, however, as a concerned resident also have the same right to express my opinion on this forum as do you... and I will continue to do so.

As someone who is close to an attorney, you of all people should understand the value of legal counsel. You are certainly entitled to opine that these actions were unnecessary... a stopped clock is accurate twice daily.

In the meantime I will also continue to follow this unfolding drama with as much interest as some others follow "reality programming" on television. I see many similarities between the two.

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Laura Frisch

10:18 am on Sunday, July 10, 2011

I am not sure exactly what happened in the executive session, but do know that attorneys were hired by only 4 of the trustees and I know what a "separation agreement" means. Yes, I see four trustees voting a separation agreement with the library director as "firing" him, and I think many other residents see it as that as well. According to Audry H. "Nobody knows why the board requested Shapiro's resignation, or why Shapiro submitted his resignation" I didn't even know they requested his resignation or that Ben Schapiro submitted a resignation, maybe she has the information we, the public, are looking for? Maybe she has been talking with board members about these issues outside of the executive session, and which trustee might she have spoken with about this? You are right, Mr. Kansoer, we should all "continue to follow this."

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Pat Craig

11:08 am on Sunday, July 10, 2011

I too question where the "facts" surrounding the actions of the board in executive session are coming from. You have held a position on the board as have I. It was made quite clearly to me in my training as I am sure it was in yours that what happens in executive session is not made public without a vote from the board to do so. Any "leakage" is contrary to the legal duties of a trustee. I would admonish the trustees on both sides of the table to look well to their legal obligations as stewards of a public institution.

I am pleased that we agree that this should be followed. I would hope that cooler heads will prevail here and we try to get true information rather than fanning the flames of controversy with rumor, acrimony and innuendo.

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Audrey H

4:53 pm on Monday, July 11, 2011

Ms. Frisch, I take great personal offense at your insinuation that I know more than is public knowledge. You are way off base, completely wrong, and way out of line. Read my posting again. I was tossing out a bunch of possible scenarios to emphasize the fact that we DO NOT know what happened in that Executive Session, yet a number of people were throwing around accusations as if they did know. Those two scenarios in particular to which you referred are very common when a massive change in leadership of an organization occurs, such as a change in the majority of a board of directors, and it is frequently described in such a way. All we do know for a fact was that the board authorized the acceptance of a separation agreement. That’s it. You can make your assumptions about what was behind that, as many people did on the postings, but do not put your assumptions forth as fact, and DO NOT accuse me or anyone else of lying, colluding, manipulating, or knowing more than is publicly known. THAT is shameful.

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Laura Frisch

6:02 pm on Monday, July 11, 2011

Audrey "H"
I was simply asking questions. Once again I must point out, this is an open forum, just as the library board meetings are supposed to be open as well. Some of us stand behind our statements by putting our real names and even our real pictures next to our comments, unlike many who comment here.
But the true issue here is not bickering between those making comments, it is the library and what is happening because of the actions of certain board members who are still a Political Action Committee (PAC) under the name BPAC(Berg, Peters, Albers and Calimag). For the residents of Morton Grove and any member of the entire public who is concerned about what is going on at the Morton Grove Public Library Board and their meetings, YOU have the right to attend this THURSDAY, July 14, 7pm the Library Board meeting at the Morton Grove Public Library.

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Audrey H

7:27 pm on Monday, July 11, 2011

Ms. Frisch, You are right, it is an open forum; a very public way of speaking to and about people. And for that reason, among many others, you need to be VERY careful with how you "just ask questions." You mentioned my name, you clearly stated the accusation that “maybe she has the information that we, the public, are looking for?" and “…maybe she has been talking with board members about these issues outside of the executive sessions, and which trustee might she have spoken with..." Statements full of inflammatory innuendo. Be careful with what you say and how you say it. Real, live people behind those "questions" and you are disparaging their reputation by making those comments. I feel very strongly that one's integrity is the basis of their character; that honesty and respect in every interaction with other people is extremely important. I would hate to think those qualities have become virtually extinct in public debate in Morton Grove. If you want to just ask a question, take responsibility for it, and don't try to throw the blame, accusations, or not so innocent suggestions towards anyone just to try to make your point. Regrettably, discussion boards are now nothing more than cesspools of negativity, gossip, and very bad behavior, and good people all too often are at the receiving end of those comments. Try respectful, honest discourse, and you will have no need to backpedal in the future.

Renée Miller

11:47 am on Sunday, July 10, 2011

It is also illegal and unethical for board members to discuss things outside of a board meeting. Based on Mr. Goldstein's comment for the record at the start of the meeting, some board members had ALREADY made decision about what was going to happen in the closed sessions. He implied that the new board members are behaving in unethical ways, not unusual for this group at all. A previous board member, who is one of their minions, often did the same thing causing the board to pass an amendment to the by-laws based on ALA rules that it is unethical to speak about board business outside of meetings or for two or more board members to discuss board business outside the board meetings. Seems like BPAC can't follow any rules unless they make them to suit their own needs.

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Paul Young

10:34 am on Monday, July 11, 2011

At this point I will refrain from commenting on the opinions going back and forth, but I would like to give a heartfelt thanks to Ben Shapiro for his service to the community. I believe that Ben has done a wonderful job with the MG library and I always appreciated his opinions in regards to books and movies. I also appreciated his MBW style (Management by Walking around). I hope that the next Director can fill the shoes.

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Jennifer Alvarado

1:21 pm on Monday, July 11, 2011

I think I will do the wait and see what comes of this, maybe there will be a calm after the storm. As I heard that there was as much yelling and screaming inside the closed session as there was out of it. I hope that members of the board can actually agree on something, and that something being actually beneficial to the library patrons.

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Eric M Poders

4:33 pm on Tuesday, July 12, 2011

The agenda for the Morton Grove Public Library's Board of Trustees is up for this Thursday, July 14, 2011:
www.webrary.org/inside/board/agenda/Agenda_July_14_2011.pdf

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Jennifer Alvarado

10:12 am on Friday, July 15, 2011

Interesting Eric thanks for the 411. As a village we have lost businesses to surrounding suburbs and now we 'lose' our library director....geesh. Skokie is calling my name to move back, 10 years as a MG resident and 29 as a Skokie resident, when I was at Niles North, the Morton Grovers always seemed more priviledged, a tighter community, had great places to shop and eat, can't we work together and get that back? I just read my parent's Skokie Review yesterday and about the fantastic Police station, I feel that our police station gets overlooked like the library, necessary improvements need to be made. It makes me irratated that it seems progress has slowed down. Anyway, the library is the center of every town, I'd like to have one that I am proud of.

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Ellie Davis

8:51 pm on Saturday, July 23, 2011

The truth will set us free. Thank God for tapes. Ellie Davis

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Jennifer Alvarado

10:20 pm on Saturday, July 23, 2011

I've listened to about 8 minutes of one meeting, and I guess since I'm for a new library anyway, no matter who is on the board, I didn't hear anything that was embarrassing. Since I have children to tend to, I don't have time to rehash old meetings, but if you wouldn't mind by giving me a time on the recording when there was something shocking... I'm probably just missing it, I'd like to hear it. Anyhoo, I need to tend to more laundry from when the lovely MG sewers backed up in the middle of the night, flooding most of my basement....

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Peggy Leib

12:27 am on Wednesday, July 27, 2011

I took the time to listen to this recording that some of us Grovers are speaking of, I was not upset in any way shape or form. It was comforting to hear a group of eloquent, kind hearted, practical, educated people have a civil conversation about the progress of our library and our village. I hope that one day our current library board can put aside their control issues and work for our community. This is not a contest to see who made mistakes in the past, this is our library and people voted for a board of trustees to run it.

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Lizzy T

8:42 am on Wednesday, July 27, 2011

Thank you Peggy for listenting to the recording, I hope you listened to both of them and truly heard what was said with objective ears. Perhaps if you listened again you would be upset. Perhaps you know them personally by the manner you describe them? These were people chosen by residents to represent our best interests. But know that even good people can do improper things. They may be eloquent and educated, but saying they wanted public opinion but then made secret plans to push their policies was not right. Stating a plan to make library patrons uncomfortable so they would call for a new building was not kind-hearted. You are right that this is not a contest, it is about exposing what was wrong in past and doing what is right in the future. This is the lesson we should take away from this, there are rules and they should be followed, especially by those elected to office.

Pat Craig

6:12 pm on Wednesday, July 27, 2011

From the tape of November 11, 2010:
{time 31:16.181} (voice of trustee Miller) "...I agree, I think it's important that people feel pain..." {time 31:18.777} (dialogue between trustees Miller and Fahey) "...they need to feel uncomfortable...yeah... they need to be miserable...take the St. Martha's parking away... forget about paying for (unintelligible)...and I think we should give the teens half...{time 31:31.210} (many voices talking over each other agreeing and laughing about ways to make the library patrons uncomfortable) {time 31:39.135} (mostly trustee Fahey and trustee Miller Miller) "...you are going to have people screaming for a new library... ya gotta have 'em feel pain {time 31:45.135}(voice of trustee Miller) ".. you know, you're laughing, but I tutored at Skokie and the teens come to use the computers right outside the four tutor rooms that they have and I can't tell you how many times Polly threw the (garbled) kids out because they were so loud nobody could study... so maybe that's what we need to start doing... I mean really... { time 32:08.750} (voice of Benjamin Shapiro) "...we've already had complaints about noise already..." {time 32:09.884} (voice of trustee Miller) "...well, let's put them right in the front window... I'm serious...{time 32:17.684}

Kind hearted? Civil? "Let 'em eat cake" is more like it. You were flim-flammed and snookered folks. Listen to the tapes and remember that the end doesn't justify the means!

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sherwin dubren

8:08 pm on Wednesday, July 27, 2011

Personally, I like Ben Shapiro, but I do not agree with his image of building a new library
in Morton Grove. His sights have been on getting a new library building from the beginning of his stewardship, so it is no surprise that it came to loggerheads with the
current makeup of the library board. I voted for the BPAC people mainly because they
had the same thoughts as myself, that taxpayers can ill afford to build a new library
building in Morton Grove. Even going beyond that, I think big library buildings in our surrounding suburbs are there mainly for bragging rights. I may be old fashioned, but in
my mind, libraries are for informational and entertainment material, not places to keep our teenagers off the streets. I use the current library often and find it comfortable and
servicable. I'm sure the next director will share these viewpoints, so I don't regret the
loss of Ben. Aside from his visions of a new library, he was an apt administrator and
we will miss his talents in this area.

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Tony Kovacs

10:35 pm on Wednesday, July 27, 2011

Elections have consequences! Anyone who thought BPAC would keep the former director was not paying attention. If we don't like the new direction-whatever that will be-there will be elections again. The whole thing would make a great paper for college pol. science majors (grass roots politics, tax revolt, future of library, etc.

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Pat Craig

7:25 pm on Thursday, July 28, 2011

Tony not only do elections have consequences, but if you're elected, your actions have consequences also. Perhaps unintended sometimes, but consequences none-the-less

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