It is a private orgination.If they want to allow gays,thats up to them and they should be forced to.Whether they allow gays or not,I don't care one way or another.

Accepting the person and accepting or condoning the behavior, are two separate ideas. The real issue has nothing to do with religion or being gay - the real issue is understanding who's God do you serve and how you define “do my duty.” Is the BSA a Christian organization?

I did not proof read my post,I meant to post the BSA should not be forced to accept gays,it should be up to the scouting org.

Jim: It's unfortunate that you equate immorality with being gay.

Says "morally straight" not sexually straight. Also don't forget to tell your six year old not to be gay when he grows up or all those badges towards eagle don't mean diddly. The original boy scout manual said you should take a cold shower and dry off with a stiff towel once weekly. Things do change. Wonder what the cold shower was for?

Immoral(adj)
not moral; inconsistent with rectitude, purity, or good morals; contrary to conscience or the divine law; wicked; unjust; dishonest; vicious; licentious; as, an immoral man; an immoral deed

We read in God’s Word the following statements about
homosexuality:
“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an
abomination. … Do not defile yourselves by any of these
things”(Lev.18:22,24).
“If a man lies with a male as with a woman,both of them
have committed an abomination…”(Lev.20:13)

Through His Word,God teaches us very clearly that homosexuality
is a sin. A person who persists in homosexual
behavior stands under the condemnation of God’s Word.This
is true for anyone who persists in sin without repentance.
While this may be an unpopular message,it is the truth taught
to us by God in His Word.

Lutheran Church Missouri Synod

Jim:
Do not preach to me about religion you are not qualified to do so. And I am unmoved by your sanctimonious sermon about what is or is not morality.

Jim, i expect that you equally follow the other passages of Liviticus and the rest of the bible word for word, right? You probably dont need me to quote the ones that im sure you hold a double standard on. That said, a private organization has its own rights. If it chooses not to change with society, it will probably go the way of all white golf clubs or bars that will not allow any women.

if your religion says being gay is morally wrong, you are entitled to that opinion. but you are not entitled to force that opinion on others such as the bsa.

if there is a god. if we are all created in the image of god. if being gay is not a choice but a genetic disposition, are not gay people created by god? why would god claim that part of what he or she created is abominable? how do we know that what is in a book written by people wandering in the desert for 40 years at least 6000 years ago is really the word of god?

your whole argument is a house of cards that has fallen years ago.

Jim - As a Bible thumping Willow Creek member myself, I am always so surprised how 2 verses on homosexuality takes over the whole Bible. It's funny Jesus never mentions anything about homosexuality. Not once! If you believe it to be sin, than for you it is sin, but so is sitting in the judgement seat, lying, stealing, coveting, cheating, etc etc. In the eyes of God, sin is sin. There is no greater sin over another. Christians are so focused on homosexuality that they cannot even see past their own noses about all the other 'sin' that so out weighs homosexuality (which I do not believe is a sin as they are born that way and God doesn't make mistakes)! PS- I'd like to meet 'one' morally straight person. According to the Bible, we are ALL sinners and need Jesus the Savior who died once for ALL sin. So, Jim, I am sure you are NOT morally straight, either!

Here we go with Leviticus again.

Anne - Take a look at what Paul has to say in 1st Corinthians, also take a look at Matthew Chapter 5. Remember Jesus came to fullfill the law, not abolish it or change it.

So Jim. As a fellow Christian, I am very curious why you would not answer my question. Do you take every verse of the bible directly and adhere to it? Every one of them?

Jim, you're taking that page from the Lutheran Missouri Synod. The same ones who punished a minister for praying with other clergy because they were not Lutheran, at the interfaith service for the Sandy Hook children.
If these people are your guidance, you can be sure that they are wrong. Being gay is not a choice. You would be one who would say that God made them that way. So, who are you to exclude one of God's children?

Jim,
I presume you follow all of Leviticus, including:
"Don't cut your hair nor shave. (Leviticus 19:27)"
and
"If a man cheats on his wife, or vise versa, both the man and the woman must die. (Leviticus 20:10)."
and
"People who have flat noses, or is blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God (Leviticus 21:17-18)"
Find more of the often violated edicts of Leviticus at: http://biblebabble.curbjaw.com/laws.htm

Jim do you like bacon and football?

Leviticus 11:7-8

And the pig, because it parts the hoof and is cloven-footed but does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. You shall not eat any of their flesh, and you shall not touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you.

Donna - No, actually I am not a fan of football, and yes do like bacon. Your refering to ceremoninal laws, not moral laws, There are three different types of laws - moral, ceremonial, and political. Discussion here was around moral law, Have a great day.

Jim, who are you to interpret these laws? What makes your interpretation any more valid? If you do indeed take every word or every statement, then you are breaking several of God's laws, I'm sure. If you follow one, you must follow all. You can't pick and choose which laws suit you best and disregard the ones that are inconvenient. Sorry, Jim, that makes you a hypocrite.

Sorry, left out " literally". If you take words and statements literally...

Lee - you wrotet: The same ones who punished a minister for praying with other clergy because they were not Lutheran, at the interfaith service .....

Yes, the minister was called on the carpet for praying at the interfaith service, nothing new with the LCMS. Has nothing to do with the tragedy at Sandy Hook, or being gay.

Mr Tibbs - You wanted a response to the following:
Jim, i expect that you equally follow the other passages of Liviticus and the rest of the bible word for word, right?
I try to follow the word of the Lord as best as possible. (If your thinking of responding then why do I eat pork as someone else mentioned, again there are different type of laws. Think of it as in modern society we have civil and criminal laws - different types.) One must remember the Law is there to condemn, and salavation is found in the New Testament through faith. And yes the Bible is the word of the Lord.
Dont mean to sound "preachy" to you, just answering yoru question.

Jim.
Your modern English mistranslation of the bible may seem clear, but the bible does not condemn homosexuality in the original texts.

Leviticus was about cleanliness codes and pagan ritual sex with temple prostitutes, not committed relationships.

"What the Bible forbids is acts of lust, rape, idolatry, violation of religious purity obligations, or pederasty, but no condemnation of homosexuality in relationships of mutual respect and love. "On the other hand, the Bible pointedly celebrates instances of same-sex emotional intimacy, a fact often overlooked by fearful homophobic readers." James B. Nelson, Professor of Christian Ethics, United Theological Seminary

Leviticus 19:18: You shall not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD.

Leviticus 19:34: But the stranger that dwells with you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

in response to dan cox, one could assume that morally straight could mean no sexual activity other than a monogamous relationship. in which case what you describe if done by either gender separate or together would not be morally straight.

do you approve of video of heterosexual sex in health class?

@dan And lets show MARRIED MEN with PROSTITUTES

Let's be honest, the BSA is considering changing their position on gays only because their corporate sponsors are abandoning the scouts. Private corporations have the right to fund or not fund organizations at their discretion. The BSA is simply chasing the money, not their moral compass. Whichever way they go on this issue, what parent would want their kid to belong to an organization like that anyway?

Dan Cox seems to be obsessed with gay porn. This is the second time he's provided such detailed descriptions. Gay porn does not reflect the lifestyle of most gay people, just like straight porn does not reflect the lifestyle of most straight people.

Discrimination isn't acceptable, Rob.

Kill people in a Theater, Kill Children in a School , abort a Baby a year, have sex as a gay, Bi-sexual, Transvestite, or animal lover,who cares, God is a lie, nobody believes in a Judgement Day anymore, anything goes, were evolved from Apes... Right?

No, Dan Cox, we are not "evolved from apes." All apes (including us) are descended from a common ancestor.

Amen to that! If the BSA is truly a Christian organization they would teach love and tolerance and acceptance, for God made everyone in His image and He loves everyone equally.

To Anne, I wasn't aware of the BSA being a Christian organization. I know many Jewish scouts...

Indeed let's get rid of the myth that BSA is a Christian organization. One can earn a merit badge in Islam, Buddhism and Hinduism, not to mention B'hai.
There are perverts and child molesters in all religions and persuasions. Perhaps the BSA should ban female adult volunteers as well? After all that is consistent with the implications of gays, unless the statement is that all homosexuals are predators.
Time to move up with the 90's, or perhaps the 21st century.

Yes, open their minds to your perverted and sickening behavior of Homosexuality and the beautiful world of freaks.

Nobody is forcing anybody to do anything. The BSA of America is coming to the conclusion that perhaps they are out of touch with the very values they teach.

Like a prostitute, the BSA is following the money instead of their own values.

the founding oath and rules do not mention homosexuality.

If it is socially and morally unacceptable today to ban members of an organization because they are black or jewish or whatever, it should also be considered unacceptable to ban people from a group soley on the basis because of who they choose to love.

Excuse me if I find it appalling that people like you do not feel the same. Call it "forcing" my view if you want, but your view is morally reprehensible, and frankly, it's against what this country stands for.

No one is demanding anything. Their corporate sponsors have chosen not to fund them any longer (which is their right) so the BSA is voluntarily changing their policy on gays so they can keep the money.

So will you get them out of my schools then LMJ? You would agree that they don't belong there, right?

Come on. That's not what she's saying.

Gay means attracted to the same sex, it does not assume sexually active. A boy who has made Eagle scout, who has fulfilled all the obligations associated with that high honor should not be kicked out because he is gay...he didn't choose to be gay. He just is. Did you choose to be heterosexual, probably not, you just are. But he is being punished for something he has no control over. It would be like saying anyone who has curly hair can not be a scout, they can hide it, but that is not what scouting is all about.

Lefty, You say "I do not get special treatment for being heterosexual!"
Yes, you do. That the whole point!
The rest of your post is just creepy and weird.

After Playboy magazine in 1955 published Charles Beaumont's sci-fi short story "A Crooked Man" -- about straight men being persecuted in a world where homosexuality was the norm -- and received angry criticism, Hugh Hefner wrote, "If it is wrong to persecute heterosexuals in a homosexual society then the reverse is wrong, too."[

Neville,
I am curious about your arguments. So, should we kick out the Moms who work with the boy scouts? They are dens leaders for my boys. Will they be able to control themselves to keep their hands off my son?

There are den Mothers, as long as they are not gay. But really by your reasoning a gay den mother would be better since she is only attracted to other woman and will not prey on the innocent boys.

Gay Den Mothers are not allowed in BSA nor are there children

thanks, Lucas. I knew that. I guess it was more of my point that it is not an issue of sexuality to Neville's point. all people have sexuality. The point is that inappropriate sexual activity, heterosexual or otherwise, has no place in BSA. I expect that all members will respect the rights of others and will behave appropriately to help the scouts become outstanding citizens and contributors to society. Sexual orientation does not prohibit this.

Children of gay parents are allowed. The Gay Moms are not allowed to be den mothers. Heck if they denied access to all children of gay parent there would be a lot of kids kicked out. Many gay men had kids before they came out. Then they divorced, by your statement that would mean a boy who lives with a straight Mom who was married to gay man but is not anymore, would not be allowed in the boy scouts.

Thank you Mr Tibbs, I couldn't agree more!

no one is saying anything about introducing children to gay or hetero lifestyles. that is not one of the merit badges. it is about excluding good people, many of whom are parents, because of their sexual orientation. who is to say that all heteros are wonderful role models for children?

So what you are saying is that gay people have a choice and if their scout counselor is gay, that may make a young boy gay. Give me a break. I've got news for all you homophobes - kids these days could care less. They are way more open-minded and accepting then all you paranoid parents. And let's get to the heart of the issue which is people think that if you are a male and gay and working with kids, then you are a pedophile which is not true.

@ Cakes - Good point. IMHO, that's why BSA will eventually get rid of their gay ban independent of public pressure. Sexual orientation is no big deal for most kids today. Why would they want to join an organization that makes it one?

Erna - do you know anyone who is gay? Is your opinion based on a real experience or is it just your perception about gay people?

Exactly, so a boy can be a cub scout at 6. He will then move up to boy scouts. But wait he isn't attracted to girls when he hits puberty. Oh no ...find out if this now 12 year old is gay...if there is any question now is the time to kick him out of scouting. You don't want to confuse the other boys, who have grown up with him. Really?? Give me a break. He already feels there is something different about himself and not you want to take away BSA from him. Telling him is not worthy or morally fir to be a scout?

Carma will get you one day when you least expect it!!

Erna S., Homosexuals are born gay, just like heterosexuals are born attracted to the opposite sex. They don't wake up one day and decide to become gay. This is why we need to educate our children about sexuality at a young age so people who do not understand sexuality don't grow up to be ignorant and hateful toward others. It is not a contagious disease. As human beings, we tend to fear and reject what we don't understand.

E. - I don't know about Evanston - but in Crystal Lake the Boy Scouts are NOT actively promoted in the public schools. Schools are not allowed to send home Scout notices anymore than the grocery store or liquor store would be allowed to. Boy scouts also do not meet in the schools here.

Most likely the merit badges would be about first aid, assisting others, tying knots, physical activity.... What were you thinking Dan? That it would all be about sexual function?

Mr. Tibbs, don't you see the irony in your statement?

This group of people identifies themselves strictly by their sexual preference. Kids.

No Dan, I really do not see the irony. Do you identify yourself only as an old myopic white man? Have you nothing else to offer the people around you or society in general? This group does not identify themselves strictly by their sexual preference (maybe some folks do, I can't speak for everyone like some here seem to be able to). They identify themselves based upon their ability to work in society, to interact and participate and contribute to the world. Their ability to help others, to teach new skills, to move business forward, to learn of the world about them. They don't want their identities to be strictly about their sexual orientation; they just don't want to be excluded from the rest of the options strictly because of it. It would seem that the BSA and you are the ones that focus "strictly upon their sexual perference" as the defining factor.

Dan is obviously a homophobe, crawl back into the 60's

You said, "This group of people identifies themselves strictly by their sexual preference. Kids."
Are you saying that homosexuals' sexual preferences are KIDS???
Please tell me you're not THAT ignorant.
You a big Jerry Sandusky fan?

Sue, there are books about what you allude to here...liberalism is about breaking down society to where there are no distinct 'right' or 'wrong'. At this point, every immoral act is acceptable.

Name one society that has been destroyed by homosexuality.

Historically, societies have been destroyed by such acts of immorality (homosexuality)? True, I do not consider the bible to be a history book, so I guess i am not aware of that "fact". Perhaps you could enlighten me.

Dan, where do you get your understanding of liberalism? I think you've either misinterpreted something or you're getting your information from unreliable sources.

hmmmm... if it is un-natural, why does it happen? Seems to me it would be hard for something that is against natural law to actually continue. And truthfully, I thought that societies were destroyed more through lying, greed, and lack of caring for others more so than for loving another human. Perhaps you can show me these 'facts' that directly point out that homosexuality directly and unproportionately caused the destruction of societies?

Agreed. Sexual preference should be a private matter. It should not be 'in your face'. But that's what the LGBTQAVC (sorry if i missed a couple letters, it seems to change daily) people like to do.

I hope you are as old as you sound, wbpprint. That kind of thinking is going the way of the dinosaur. Thankfully, the younger generations are a bit more open-minded. If you are younger, you have been woefully mislead.

that's right! If we could just go back and really see how well separate but equal works for the benefit of everyone (at least if you are in the majority)... Oh wait... That didn't work so well, did it?
And who is trying 'flaunt it'? it would seem to me that the ones that are making this 'in your face' are the ones that are making it the sole issue for exclusion, the BSA and close-minded folks that for some reason believe that 'these gays' are after your children.

J C - "Mien Kumph"?
Jeez, if you don't know the name of something, don't try to use it in a sentence.

wbpprint - "they like any other group, race, or religion have the same rights as the majorities".
No, they don't. THAT'S THE POINT.

And don't provide corporate funding to them.

When a boy joins BSA they are just boys, they might discover they are gay, then what? They have worked hard to earn the badges, obeyed the rules and are going to be banned when they discover they are different through no fault of their own or their parents. Sorry boy, although you were fine here for the last 5 years you are no longer welcome. Who are you punishing? The boy, who might even be from a right wing conservative Christian family, who raised him right, now what? Does he all of a sudden turn into a sexual deviant, does he turn liberal? No he is still the same boy, who happens to discover he is gay.

There was no mention of homosexuality in the original policies. This was added after a very unfortunate incident which was the result of not checking peoples backgrounds. In the current culture of background checks and two deep coverage incidents like this are almost impossible. I do not understand what is immoral.

you got it, garrett.

When there are no clear boundaries of right and wrong, everything is ok. That's what these people want.

Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes... The dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!
Be careful who you agree with, Dan. garrett wants to take us back to the good ol' days so we can keep clean race delineation (damn those mongrel societies!) as well as not being tricked into gay sex acts.

As opposed to those young boys being "led" by someone as morally forthright as say... Jerry Sandusky? A happily married, HETEROSEXUAL father.

they are.

I know gary just wanted to see response

The problem with that is if I refuse to believe in or say the word "god", I can't be a member or leader of scouts. On our green earth we are all equal.

Leave it to sully to pick up the pace with the name calling.

He also is in favor of having young boys be distinguished by their sexual preference. And that's what this is all about. NAMBLA member, sully?

I am? Please explain how I am in favor of what you say.

Thank you.

Thank you J, I agree!

Most of whom ARE SUPPOSEDLY STRAIGHT CAUSE THEY AREMARRIED

unfortunately, there are child molesters in every segment of the population.. look at Senator Bob Menendez from N.J... he flies down to the Dominican to use the underage girls that have been forced into prostitution. The liberal media says "look the other way"!

Equating gay people with child molesters is ignorant.

tough. then stay out.

the idea that adults are advocating boys to distinguish themselves by their sexual orientation creeps me out.

Did you realize that having a strong faith in God was part of the Boy Scouts credo?

So Dan, Gays cannot believe in God? Maybe not the mean spirited God you believe in, yet they can believe in God.

"So Dan, Gays cannot believe in God? Maybe not the mean spirited God you believe in, yet they can believe in God."

are you replying to the right post? Jon was creeped out by having a Boy Scouts meeting in a church vs. having it at a legion hall, etc.

Sorry Dan. My bad.

@DAN ARENOV CNN subsequently confirmed that the student was above the age of consent in Massachusetts and not sexually active.[14] The incident resurfaced in 2009 as part of a social conservatives' campaign against Jennings' appointment to head the U.S. Department of Education's Office of Safe and Drug-Free Schools.[14]

@ DAN ARENOV Legal Age of Consent "14"

You could probably add the father of the year's behavior as not terribly appropriate either, sex with an intern, telling her to lie before the court, telling Juanita she should probably put some ice on the fat lip he gave her.... What nonsense you spew again from the left.

Hey Mac, if you're going to try to say something, at least stay on subject.

Just dove tailing off your weird last sentence. I guess with your hit n run style, you forget alot.

@ sully , if you want people to take you serious you should use proper grammer . Im sorry but using words like my bad make you sound like you are from the south where they have no education . Practice what you preach buddy ..... ;,)

Okay Pete. How about this? - I am sorry, Dan. You are correct that I misread what you wrote, and indeed i did respond incorrectly. Please accept my humble apology. Thank you.

Is that easier for you to understand, Pete?

By the way, Pete, that would be "take you seriously", not "take you serious".

@Lucas. Jennings said in his own book that the boy was 15.

Whether CNN 'confirmed' that the kid was 15 or 16, twenty years later is not relevant to the FACT that Jennings thought the boy was underage and instead of reporting the incident, he advised the boy to use a condom.

I am not trying to criminally indict Jennings here, i'm bringing up this incident as an example of his character.

Who wants children to consider their sexual orientation before the are developmentally ready? That would not only be impossible, but irresponsible. The point however, is to not belittle or demean a child when he has figured out his orientation. This society makes kids feel guilty for their feelings. This is beyond a political issue.

@Lucas. there is a provision in Mass. state law that lessens the penalty for sexual misconduct when a man has sex with a 14 year old boy, but if the boy is under 16, it is still statutory rape. And for such a screwed up, uber liberal state, at least they have this line in the text of the law:

"Whoever unlawfully has sexual intercourse or unnatural sexual intercourse.."

Do you know what would constitute 'unnatural sexual intercourse"? My guess is that it has to do with a man sticking his penis in the anus of a boy.

Wasn't meant for that. Thus, unnatural.

so Ken Jennings is why we have to exclude homosexual boys or parents from BSA? Did I miss your argument, Dan?

Oh McCloud. Trying so hard to keep up.

I agree, Frank. This is a human issue, not a political one. Unfortunately it has proven to be such an effective wedge issue for politicians, it has become one.

Yeah Frank not a political issue, even though I attempted swipes at Republican's just 5 minutes ago. You will have to excuse me, I'm a liberal.

Gee, thanks Dan. Nothing like being grammatically corrected on a message board.

Jon, you can google this for yourself. I don't care enough about gaining the respect of a leftist who supports the indoctrination of young boys into deciding their sexual orientation at an age when they shouldn't care at all.

The Boy Scouts oath or creed says something about performing their duty for God and country. Look it up.. i don't post links. People post links from all kinds of places. decide the truth for yourself.

Anderson, as somebody who considers the source of where a story is coming from, i'm not taking this article seriously..whether it is 'pro' or 'con' because of all of the articles on the right hand side of the website. It's obvious that they have an agenda.

Did you at least read the link, or just assume it's not worthy?

sully, after i read all of the story summaries on the side of the page, i figured that the story in question was written with an agenda.

Of course it was, Dan. That does not mean it lacks legitimacy though. At least read it and then make the call yourself.

Boy Scout Oath:
On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

Boy Scout Motto:
Be Prepared!

Jon, you are right. They have an oath, they have a 'promise', etc.. no credo.

However, the gist of the matter was that there was some religious aspect to their purpose. There is. They are to perform their duty for God and country.

On God, BSA has recognized atheist and agnostics for over 40 years. They do not need to say God in the pledge.

Well, Old H.P.,

pretty soon the boy scouts will be gay and lesbian and transgender and communist, with men and women and circus clowns and huskies all being members. It will stand for nothing, but everyone will get a merit badge! that's where our society is heading.

http://algonquin.patch.com/blog_posts/everybody-gets-a-trophy-until-youre-an-adult

Dan I don’t think a boy scout pack meeting will ever look like The rocky horror picture show.

Also the “God” in the oath is more around the Masonic concept of God, as in a belief in a higher power.

Christians are afraid of being politically incorrect? I have not seen that. Plenty of Christians are currently living in sin and hiding it. Plenty of atrocities have been covered up..That is weakness. Plenty of Christians failed, and continue to fail, in bringing to justice the 1000s of Priests who have ruined the lives of boys throughout the world. The word of God should be to throw these Priests and Scout leaders in jail forever. In fact, they should be executed by the state of their actions.

Hi Nicole of what Bible are you speaking? The Torah, those canonized by the 2nd century BCE, Protestant Reformation. Ops I could go on and on and on about the number of different bibles and texts out there, so if you could just tell me the version you are reading from that would help.

so does this mean that you would favor the BSA dropping their ban? It would seem that way. Love the people, hate the sin... or are you saying that Jesus was incorrect. I'm confused on your stance.
I'm also confused about the persecution of Christians. Can you enlighten me a little more on that area?

Gee Nicole, do you think Jews and other non-Christians have gotten the memo?

So is judging, and lying, and hateful gossip, and all kinds of other things, but Christians just cannot stop focusing on this one issue. We will all stand before the throne of God and He will judge on whether you accepted his Son's death on the cross or not. Done deal!! Everything else is mute! All have sinned and have fallen short. If someone is a homosexual and accepted Christ's Death for his "sin" then God see's Jesus, not the so called "homosexual sinner!"

Well said Dr. K.

Closed minded bigotry....Race and gender is not the same as a man sleeping with another man. I don't know if you have read the Bible, but it states that no man should lay with another man. A sin is a sin. My gossip in God's eyes is the same as someone who commits murder, we need to flee from sin...We are a country where anything goes, look at the outcome...Take God out of schools, we have shootings, std's at all time high, drug addiction all time high, lets just keep making everything acceptable, sin is ok, no God, judgement day will come..You keep your mind set, mine is set on the Lord..

I know what you mean, I was declined on my application to become a NOW member. They said I was a man. I might try the League of Women Voters or the NAACP next.

you are a funny woman, Nicole. Confusing but funny.

@Nicole
The Bible offers two primary points relevant to this conversation:
(1) a man shall not lay with another man
(2) all human beings are created in the image of God, and He loves them equally
Now, how much time would you say is devoted to each of these two points? I am no biblical scholar, but from what I understand (though please correct me if I'm wrong), the latter point is emphasized much more frequently than the former. Since undoubtedly you have read the Bible more thoroughly than I, I need hardly point out how often scripture from the Old Testament contradicts contemporary Christian morality. This contradiction is the natural result of change over time. Back then, as is heavily implied in biblical text, slavery was just fine, women were inherently subordinate to men, and so forth. If this can change, why can't the single line the Bible has devoted to sexuality also be re-interpreted?

Also, it would be hilariously disappointing if the only reason you oppose school shootings, drug use, prostitution/unsafe sex, and other "sins" is because God forbids these things. I do not commit murder because I could not live with the guilt of having caused my victim and his/her family and loved ones so much pain. If God changed his mind and said that murder is all right, would you change your mind with Him?

I am too funny well thanks, I guess you are confused on what is right and wrong. I am very clear on it. You live you way, I live mine. My best friend is gay, I don't agree with what he does, but I love him. I hate the sin, but love the sinners. Pretty clear to me.

@Nicole, Did your best friend choose to be gay. Do you think he should practice abstinence because he is gay? If he did practice abstinence would that make him not gay, since he is not having immoral sex, per you description? Do you think he should be denied membership in a club because he is gay? When he was a teen would you have wanted him thrown out of the scounts because he realized he was gay?

Then liberals would have no way to divide the electorate, they'd have to rely on their "logic", which would put them on the extinct list.

Therefore gay soldiers are also forcing their way Into the military, correct? How dare they want to help defend their country, a country where so many in the population wish they didn't even exist, and put their own lives at risk for YOUR so called freedom. Selfish bastards those homos are!

Mac, I think it may be time to remind you again-- your side lost the election. Your side lost seats in the senate, and if not for republican gerrymandering, your side would have lost the house (the dems won the popular vote pretty big, but redistricting by the republicans got them just the results they wanted). The liberals are not the ones in danger of extinction. Even most republicans know that.

@Sully YUP

Dan, I think you may have the wrong thread. I think the one of discontent from the last election is a few pages over.
Also, Perhaps you need to get used to the lower jobs market as we become more of a globalized capitalistic economy. You need to prove your economic worth beyond others that can do your job similarly in other parts of the world. Though I'm pretty sure the job market for crotchety old white men in fear of everything not like himself may be a little tight right now.

You pretty much bankrupted your own credibility with that Boy Scout credo baloney you made up. Scout troops which meet in churches are just a form of bible camp.

Shouldn't Scout troops stop meeting in Churches?

Dan? When's the last time you looked at the facts?

b.s., Jon. The point was that performing duty for God and country were part of their philosophy.

Wow, nicole.... if you think you are persecuted, you can thank Allah that you are not a follower of Muhammad living in the U.S. Your persecution is not even close.

I'm sure the Lord is very proud of your intolerance. Those poor poor persecuted people of the Christian faith. They've had it so hard for so many centuries? With wars and violence such as the Crusades and World War Two, its a wonder there are any Christians left. They've always had the whole world against them It's quite a testimate that they've been able to hold on to such power considering all they've been through.

Not sure I'm following how your logic, Pete, or who 'you people' are.

Don't you see, Mr. Tibbs? Obviously anyone who defends homosexuals as being actual human beings must be gay AND have AIDS. No one with any morals would think human beings who are different from "the norm" deserve the same rights as regular people. Come on, man- get with it! I'm so impressed with Pete's cognitive skills. He must be a very wise and intelligent man, so what he says must be the Truth.

I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of...Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all." Thomas Paine.

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise." James Madison.

You must be a fan of David Barton, Nicole. You might want to try studying a real historian, not one constructed by Glenn Beck.

much of the ignorance comes from those on the left. the breakdown of our culture starts and ends with those on the left.

No Dan, most of the ignorance comes from the simple- minded population who would rather take what Rush, or Pat Robertson, or Beck say as gospel rather than using their own intellect to understand the reality of the situation- those who accept at face value anything they are told regardless of how unreal it may be. When one chooses to believe everything they are told just because, well, that doesn't say much for the progression of humanity, does it? It's a scary concept to some, but God did give us free will. Otherwise we would simply be puppets with no individuality of our own.

Dan, I'm curious. What would the ideal society look like to you? This is not a frivolous question- I would really be interested in knowing, so if you care to answer, please don't do so flippantly. I would like to understand where you are coming from.

Dan's ideal society likely takes place pre-1960, before the Civil Rights Movement. ... And yet he still gives us the Rodney Dangerfield look -- eyes bulging, hand clutching the knot of the necktie, shoulders shrugging -- whenever the Teabaggers are called racists. ... Mississippi whites were decrying the 'breakdown of our culture' all thru the 60s, even when local laws were struck down as unconstitutional.

I think that since the tea party has fractured and is having internal strife, it's time to rebrand. I propose the "regressive party" and individuals should be called regressives. They could hang posters of George Wallace and Jesse Helms. They could even celebrate their own special days- the assassinations of MLK and RFK ( I don't know that JFK would have mattered much to them), the day LBJ announced he wouldn't be running again, the day John Lennon was murdered (he WAS a socialist after all), and the day Citizens United passed so that all that money could be surreptitiously donated to their bought off candidates).

Thanks, Pete. Although it is not me that's 'in to' it, if I can use your wording. And because folks defend gay rights or the rights of others does not mean that they are part of that group. I also served as a minority adviser in college, but I'm about as white as they come.
I think that the core point is that no one is trying to make you become gay or join 'my' world. In fact, if BSA decides that they will not allow gay members, I'm OK with that. Very disappointed in them, but it is their own decision. I am discouraged that folks live in fear of being 'converted' to being gay or that these gay individuals will be preying on their children. I would like to try to ease that fear with more realistic issues. Best wishes to you.

Glad to hear he was right on one issue

Well that was the 1994 Mitt. Who knows what the 2013 Mitt believes. I guess that would depend on the polls!

absolutely. there has been an attack by the left on every conservative ideology. the media, which is predominantly staffed by liberal groupthink, lends a helping hand.

similar to the Chick Fil A situation last year.

The attacks on conservative ideology may possibly be a reaction to the attacks by fundamentalist ideologues who want to tell everyone else what is and what is not moral. I do not dispute Chic-Fil-A's right to be grossly homophobic, but I also have the right to not frequent that establishment anymore (which has been quite hard because I do love it's chicken). I'm not telling you what to do or calling you a narrow-minded cretin because you choose to support it, so why should it be okay for you ( the rhetorical you) to criticize me?

Fundamentalists want it both ways- they are allowed to press their beliefs on to the whole world, yet no one is allowed to question them or offer alternate views. It doesn't work that way. Sorry.

Dan, the owners of Chick-fil-A can feel and believe what they want to. What the DON'T have the right to do is to support and donate to HATE groups who commit violence against homosexuals.
This is why the boycott.

actually, H.P., it is for scouts as well.

Unfortunately the boys are kicked out if they are found to be gay. Here is a story about a boy who reached Eagle Scouts only to be denied because he came out as gay.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/ondeadline/2012/10/05/boy-scouts-of-america-eagle-scout-gay/1614769/

as long as they don't broadcast it or make advances on the straight boys, who cares? but to put these kids in a situation where they feel like they should be making some kind of decision about their sexual preferences when they're tweeners is not good.

Dan, how are they forcing kids to make a decision? You alluded to that before. What are they doing that forces kids to make a decision?

As it should be Old H.P.

Dan, just curious... is it OK if a boy scout makes advances on a straight girl? Just want to know how deep your double standard goes.

"to put these kids in a situation where they feel like they should be making some kind of decision about their sexual preferences when they're tweeners is not good."
Dan Aranov - You must be delusional and/or severely misinformed. People don't "make a decision" about their sexual preferences.
When did you decide to be heterosexual? (if, indeed you truly are)

I don't know any gays who go around announcing that they are gay. People are what they are. If they "act" gay, that's just the way they are. I know straights that act gay but aren't.

I don't walk around with a sign on my back saying if I'm gay or straight. What people do in there bedrooms is there business. I can only assume what they do from hearsay That all the experts that claim to know everything say

Pete, I'm sure that with your attitude, you'll never have any gay friends either. Do certain family members avoid you, or only see you at the holidays? Perhaps, you guys never talk much about family? If so, that's because they see you as what you are. Too bad. They are contributing members of society, have many friends and your choice to exclude them from your life is your loss, not theirs.

I've never had anyone just come up to me and say they're gay. Friends of mine who are gay have never tried to change my sexual orientation or have flaunted it. My gay cousin is effeminate, but he has never flirted openly with other men in front of me or other members of my family. In fact, he and his partner have been together for over forty years and were just lucky enough to have gotten married recently. They don't cheat on each other, they do not try to seduce other men's partners, and they don't go around hunting for children in order to turn them gay. So Pete, I don't know what you're talking about other than your own scared misperceptions. I have no interest in what you and your wife, or my cousin and his partner do when together. It's none of my business. Do you not think there is ever anything dark going on between the opposite sexes? If not, you're burying your head in the sand. Hey, are you one of those who think there's a difference between rape and "legitimate" rape? That thinks the woman or girl must've been asking for it? Do you feel contempt when high school athletes record their rape of a young woman and paste it on utube, laughing at the girl the whole time? Do you not find that dark and disturbing? Do you simply look away when rapes are reported in the military and it's said that's hat just has to be expected? Nothing wrong with that because the men doing the raping are at least straight?

Goldfinger was better... ;-)

So Pete, what are you doing hanging out at gay bars? I just finished dinner, that I made for my family. See, just because I accept people for who they are, I'm just like any other normal American Woman. My advice to you...if you don't want to be subjected to what gays do in a gay bar...don't go there.

Heaven forbid your daughters ever get raped, Pete. Then again, it's just straight boys being straight, right? Now, do you have a learning disability in written expression, or did you never make it past third grade?

@pETE your the first supposedly straight guy I've heard admit to hanging out in gay bars. Most I've been in are quite like any straight bar. DRINKS AND PEOPLE TRYING TO MAKE CONNECTIONS.

Gosh Northshore, it's great that you love your children. Hope one of them doesn't turn out to be gay. The ridicule that awaits them only comes from uneducated homophobes such as yourself. You're a dying breed though, so I wouldn't feel too bad for our youth. Save that for yourself and your like minded pals. You are the ones going down.

Ooh Northshore, that's a goodun! You done got me there. Caint get nuthin pass you. I'm still a- laughin.

Agreed... No reason to resort to name calling or trying to hurt others.

Oh Really!

Not the normal night in a bar. Depends of bar type also. Usually you don't see both sexes in a gay bar

None of my gay friends or my cousin go from bed to bed to bed. They have one partner they are committed to, just like us "regular" people. And I hate to break it to you, but there plenty of straight men who DO jump from bed to bed to bed (regardless of their relationship status). Have you ever seen what goes on with college athletes and college fraternities?

Hate to break it to you Roman but Gays have been have been in the military since it started. They are all trained to kill

But it is okay for the military academies to force Christianity onto all of its students?

Actually, Cox, when you judge other and put yourself in the position of God, YOU are immoral and dead in the eyes of God. (Or at least that is what i have heard). Now put your member away, please.

Cox is the quintessential "holier than thou".

Unless you are predisposed to be homosexual, you can not be converted. Just as a gay man cannot be made straight. He can claim to be straight, but he is not really.

Moe, this happened at Disney World? What a hoot. Ol' Walt Disney must be turning over in his grave, since he was a world-class bigot.

nothing wrong with a few cold beers especially freee

Again with the anger, McCloud. Everything you say is always reduced to the liberals. Always the liberals fault. You offer nothing but your little boy biases and resentment.

Thank you McCloud. This is not about hating gays. Listen, according to the reasoning of many here THEN the Miss Black America pageant then should be accused of EXCLUSION of other races that are NOT black!
A larger issue here in my opinion is all traditional American institutions are under attack right now. Traditional marriage for example, Boy Scouts another.
Doesn't the NATIONAL ORGANIZATION OF WOMEN exclude and discriminate against MEN? See my point?

You build straw men for every one of your issues. I have no bias against gay people, strangely enough, and whatever the BSA decides on their own is fine with me. Every issue is the same with you liberals, ridicule out of straw men built due to your lack of any strong point available. The intolerant one is you, friend.

good points, McCloud and Erna.. as i mentioned yesterday, there are organizations that i cannot join because i'm a white man.

That's ok with me.

Yet, there are very few organizations where only white men are allowed...because that is BAD. that's DISCRIMINATION.

We have to allow liberals to have double standards. If we didn't, they wouldn't have any standards at all.

Tell me most wise one, is it supposed to snow in February these days, or did I cause disruption to the atmosphere by starting my car last week?

you got it, Erna.

Many in this thread have said something to the effect of "..whatever the Boy Scouts want to do is their business".

That's not good enough for liberals.

Interesting that you think all conservatives or liberals can be portrayed as a unified group... (By the way, this is not a strawman).

Dan, I think you are making my point for me. I do agree with you, the BSA and their goals have nothing to do with sexuality. But then you go on to say that we are making a big deal about the sexuality of the boys (I'm assuming that you feel the same way in regards to having gay leaders there as well)... Well the only ones that want to make a big deal out of the sexuality seems to be the BSA and some folks here. My point, and I think the point of some others here, is that it should not be a point of exclusion. If we don't exclude because of it, and expect that folks will respect each other regardless of their race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, hair color, finger nail length, etc... then there is no issue nor any problem.
What do you think?

OMG Dan there are boys who are sexually attracted to girls, openly, in the organization. It shouldn't be a big deal either way.

That's funny. The decline of the Roman Empire was also defined by consumerism, greed, gluttony, inequality among citizens, and imperialism. Where are all the good Christians speaking against those things, which Jesus said are sins (whereas he was curiously quiet about homosexuality)?

Sue, I read the article. There are a couple of large issues that I have with it. First is that it does not show that homosexuality is the cause of the decline for the 2 societies that it states had significant instances (Greek and Roman). I do note that many of the other societies it lists as falling had no mention of homosexuality.
It also lays the premise that homosexuality leads to pedophilia. But based upon the descriptions it would seem that it was more the loss of humanization and love of the persons and the treatment of them as only sexual objects that is driver of decline.

and further more, it would seem in most all of the cases, the larger driver was the economic success of the society. Similar morrows are seen in business teachings such as the Art of War or capitalistic structure (success --> size --->structure ---> niche competitors ---> destruction---->repeat)

<more crickets, lots of crickets, even gay crickets have joined the chorus>

What? Nothing? Let me help. Just scan these comments and take any insult thrown at Christianity, and aim it at Islam. That's all it will take for the Gay lobby to achieve intellectual integrity.

You have bravely challenged the Boy Scouts of America, now show you got courage and take on homophobia wherever you find it. I could respect that.

<seriously angry gay crickets>

That's funny, since they light their women on fire, and according to Obama, we should hold the same shame since we don't fund women sports through the NCAA equally.

Gary,
I'll take that on! But first let's address McCloud's myopic comment, shall we? McCloud, have you ever been to an Islamic ceremony or service here on the Northshore? Heck, how about anywhere else for that matter? Actually an enlightening and great experience (you should actually try a couple, many will allow you to attend just like some of the local churches) . My neighbor here in Glenview is a Muslim. He has yet to set any of his women on fire that I have seen. He has worked hard to build a business and has raised 2 great daughters both of whom have advanced degrees and work as a teacher and a journalist. If only most of the U.S. had his work ethic and his hospitality to others, we would be a much stronger country right now! Perhaps you can look a little deeper than your prejudiced response?

OK?

Sorry for that interruption, Gary... Now I'll take that on. just like I think we all should take on the responsibility of promoting better understanding and knowledge. For some folks, it will not be easy. To your point, many religions that are based upon the old testament are not directly accepting of homosexuality. (Jewish, Christian, Islamic). I must say, I don't think that I ever have aimed an insult at Christianity here. I think a number of folks have questioned what they see as some double standards within the application of the prejudice some Christians have for homosexuals. I will bravely ask the BSA to change. I will bravely ask most any organization to think about how they exclude or express bias against others. Truthfully, I don't think that it really takes bravery; it just takes compassion.

Mr. Tibbs,
You just can't get yourself to see homophobia anywhere than in your political enemies here in the US. This isn't about gay rights. This about attacking a culture in the US that you have learned to hate and look down on in the US. Instead of acknowledging Islam's atrocious record on gay rights, you accused me of prejudice. You have proven my point. You're a stand up guy for trying.

Does anyone else want to try?

Gary, how did this go from allowing gays into the boy scouts to Islam? What has Islam to do with the boy scouts? We are talking about this country- America, and the difference between right and wrong. Why do you bring such a white elephant into the room? Your tangent is nothing more than an escape from the issue at hand. A distraction in other words.

Gary, perhaps if you could get past your 'us and them' mentality, this would be easier for you. First, i'm not sure what your mean by my political enemies here in the U.S. i dont feel that i have political enemies here (OK, i'll give you the KKK and some Arian Nation types who i might consider my political enemies but i dont think you are placing yourself in one of those groups). I can obviously see homophobia in places and groups all around the world. But that isnt what this discussion is about, it is about gay rights even despite your objections. You say it is about "attacking the culture in the US that i have learned to hate and look down upon". Perhaps you could actually enlighten me to what that culture is that i am hating? I have acknowledged that most of the major religions have atrocious records on gay rights... Maybe you didnt actually read my post or you read the response that i stated was directed at McCloud and took it personally?
So the point that i made, which maybe is your point but it is hard to tell now, is that you should fight prejudice where ever you find it. (Oh, and persecuting muslims as a whole is just as bad as saying all Christians should be demonized, but that was really directed at McCloud)

My point is that all the attacks coming from the left on issues like gay rights, the war on women, race issues, are all selectively aimed at targets on the right, and characteristically ignore any similar problems that exist in "politically correct" protected groups.

You are being taught to hate the very people who would fix our problems if you gave them a chance. That's the whole purpose of this. You are being played. Wake up.

With regard to the whole bit about gays versus pedophilia, someone already brought up NAMBLA. There is no daylight between NAMBLA and the mainstream gay movement. If the gay movement refuses to make a distinction, then who am I to disagree with them. When I see them sort it out and police their own ranks, then I'll be willing to reconsider the issue.

Gay scout leaders led to molestation in the past, and "common sense" tells us we should not try that again. You don't want to stand in the way of "common sense" do you?

Gary, you are the one who needs to wake up. You've bought into every Limbaugh-Fox lie about how the left is your enemy. Only those on the right are true Americans. All liberals are secret communists seeking to destroy this country. Get real, Gary. Stop buying all the BS you've been fed.

Gary, people are allowed to have opinions. That what a comment board is for. They are not attacks. And not agreeing with something is different than insulting it.

McCloud, I ran across this news story and immediately thought of you and your comments in a few of the stories in the Patch about how Muslim's set their women on fire. seems Christians do that, too. how many have you set on fire as a Christian? I assume the groups should be stereotyped the same, right?
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/02/17163545-man-douses-girlfriend-in-perfume-sets-her-on-fire-police-say?lite

I would suggest you remove your head from the sand. You are telling me that the treatment of women in Islamic nations is equal and fair? Women are not even allowed to learn how to read. Good grief you are an ignorant one.

No,McCloud, not ignorant on this at all. I'm very aware of the atrocities across many countries in the world, even our own. But your prejudice view that aligns all of a group with the behaviors you assign to "Muslims" is based upon ignorance. How many Muslims do you actually know? I know many. none of which have set women or anyone else of fire. My point is that anytime you assign the actions of some to the actions of all, then you are a bigot. If people were to assume everyone is the same based upon the actions of some in that group then you could just as well assume that lots of other Americans set fire to others. Or that all Republicans are racists, or all Democrats exist on public assistance... Bigotry is something we should be looking to eliminate but you seem to propogate it.

No bigotry that is where you leave logic behind. Countries that condone setting women on fire using religion need to be called out and not equated with NCAA funding here in the US.

I've been waiting for 12 years for someone in the Muslim world to condemn the murder that happened on Sept 11th. Might be waiting another 12 years?

mcCloud, I think you need to look up bigotry. your ignorance of the religion as a whole and the many people who follow Islam here in the U.S. is astounding. to just align them to the murdering stories you see on the news is just a text-book example of bigotry. without even knowing any of the millions muslims that contribute to the success of the U.S., you just group them all into your narrow view as women burning terrorists. It is true just as much as you are a baby murdering gang-banger who lives off of the work of others, as obviously everyone in the Chicago area is because that is what you see on the news.
And the reason you feel you are still waiting Muslims to condemn 9/11 is because you don't want to hear it or even acknowledge that it already happened. In fact most of the leaders of the heavily muslim countries condemned the attack. Hell, there was even about 60,000 people in Iran that held a candle-light vigil of sympathy. Islamic Medical Association, Association of Muslim Social Scientists, American Muslim Council, Islamic Society of North America... the list goes on.
Perhaps if you actually had friends outside of your bigoted circle, you would have a better understanding and not classify everyone in a blanket statement, but I doubt you have much to offer to society or many others.
unfortunately, people like you really do make nauseous. I pray for your enlightenment and to an end of your ignorance.

Why is it ok to say no to gays? What if the boy scouts said no to blacks, Latinos, Asians, American Indians.....you get the picture. Would any of that be OK just because they are a private organization?I think everyone would be up in arms if that happened. What does being gay have to do with being a boy scout?

Bill draws a line between gays and scouts, but I would suggest those two groups are not mutually exclusive. What about gay scouts and gay scout leaders who want to participate in scouting activities? They're not trying to change anything, they just want to have scouting experiences like everyone else. To use your phrase, why can't they "be scouts with other scouts"? Why must you categorize them as "gays being gay"? Do you also want blacks to "just be satisfied with being black" and not participate in your organizations? Gays are not "out to get the Boy Scouts".

Are you sure they are all so like-minded? I think you would find plenty who are against discrimination.

Are Jews allowed into the Boy Scouts? They don't believe that Jesus was the savior, so are they allowed in this organization? I would think that some of you would see being Jewish immoral.

And guess what...some of the men who went through scouting are strong gay men. Physical and mental straight have nothing to do with being straight or gay. A boy who has proved himself to be worthy of becoming an Eagle Scout should not have to hide who he is. Do you think he chose to be gay? No more than you chose to be straight. Most of the abuse I read about is by men who are secretly gay, they are allowed in the scouts because they look "normal" they are married have kids...go to church.

Alot of heresay in your stuff. While what you say might be true, the real issue is the BSA should have the liberty to select whomever they wish for their membership, without your meddling. Would you like to live in a country where all the decisions you make are dictated to you by someone else? Isn't that why people came here in the first place?

Donna - "Most of the abuse I read about is by men who are secretly gay, they are allowed in the scouts because they look "normal" they are married have kids."

Right. Which is exactly why the Scouts banned gay men from being Scout leaders, to stop that abuse. Now you're telling us you want them back in. Tell me, how many young boys are you willing to sacrifice on the altar of political correctness so you can claim to be morally superior to the rest of us?

I'm saying banning openly gay men will make no difference. The secret ones will still be there.

Aside from the leaders do you think it's ok to kick a teen who has fulfilled all the requirements of Eagle scouts be denied when he comes to the realization that he is gay. I guess it's better for him to keep it hidden suppress it, play straight. In other words lie.

I do not have a problem with gay scouts as members. Having gay scout masters has not worked in the past, and I would rather see the Scouts disbanded rather than help set up a situation where more young boys can be molested.

So one who is gay cannot perform the same physical activities as one who is straight? and only gays are responsible for abuse? Wow, what have you been reading? Fiction certainly.

Thats right Gary. Straight males wouldn't think of abusing young men. Maybe you should look up pedophilia. Pedophiles are not gay. They are sick (and straight).

Gary, should the Catholic church be disbanded as well based on your reasoning? many of their clergy are pedophiles.

Steve,
Of course. If the church doesn't stop the molestation then they should be jailed and sued out of existence. Did you think you were making a point there?

Gary, my point is that if it is known that there is rampant homosexuality and pedophilia within the catholic church, and that when it happens it is typically covered up and dealt with outside of the law, why don't you stand up and disband the church so that we don't put kids in the position of scaring them into believing what you do and then raping them.

well put, Casey.

I agree with most of what you say Casey. However BSA is not a Christian organization. There are many chapters that are non denominational or affiliated with the other religions. My son's met at a school religion was never brought up, nor was sexual preference, skin color etc. That's how it should be. But as you said it is a private organization and are entitled to their rules. I don't have to agree with it. Come to think of it one of the troop leaders from that chapter is now a woman. He was a large manly man before. The epitome of what BSA stands for...how ironic.

The term is not minority...it's "protected class". And yes, gays are a "protected class". The only citizens that are not a protected class are white, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant, males under the age of 40. They, BTW, are a minority

The liberal language folks have arrived. Instead of global warming it's climate change, instead of gun control it's gun violence, instead of pro-abortion it's choice, instead of illegal it's undocumented, ..... Their line of crap stinks every new word they try to indoctrinate using Brian Williams as their vehicle.

My oh my...you missed the point, Mac...

I agree that some of the lascivious behavior could be toned down at the parade. Much of the misbehavior along the sidelines is by young straight people that come to Lake View to party. Have you seen Jersey Shore? Straight People. Have you seen that redneck 20 something show filmed in West Virginia? Straight People. Just like you can't say all straight people act like Jersey Shore kids, you can't say all Gay's act like they are on a parade float. Believe me, they don't!

@ EMA Mardi Gras in New Orleans SHOULD BE BANNED

You are the only thing that confuses young children, they are much more pure than yourself and can look at the world without judgemental eyes. The perverse manner in which you speak of is their right to express themselves freely as our country so generously allows, and it it no different or any less confusing than the perverse commentary that you write. No one is saying that boy scout should be a gay group, it just says they shouldn't exclude, even the kids understand this, of course until their parents tell them to.

Mardi Gras" (pron.: /ˈmɑrdiɡrɑː/), "Mardi Gras season", and "Carnival season",[1][2][3][4][5] in English, refer to events of the Carnival celebrations, beginning on or after Epiphany and culminating on the day before Ash Wednesday. Mardi gras is French for Fat Tuesday, referring to the practice of the last night of eating richer, fatty foods before the ritual fasting of the Lenten season, which begins on Ash Wednesday. The day is sometimes referred to as Shrove Tuesday, from the word shrive, meaning "confess

That is the definition from Wikipedia. Have you been to Mardi Gras? Bare breasted woman, excessive drinking, lewd behavior, to name a few things that go on during it. Oh and by the way that is a Christian based event.

Don't take me wrong I am not insulting Christianity, or saying ALL Christians support Mardi Gras celebrations. That would be like saying all Gays are pedophiles and exhibit lewd public behavior.

My point is you can't generalize about any group of people, there are good asnd bad in all walks of society.

I’ve never been to a gay pride parade, but my wife and I once strolled down Canal Street in Provincetown, Mass., with our two elementary-school-aged children. And no, they weren’t scarred for life or “confused,” Erna. In fact, they were rather oblivious about it – the male bodybuilders (one in his 40s, the other in his 20s) holding hands, walking down the street wearing nothing but thongs; the skinny guy sashaying in a sarong; another guy wearing a silver-spraypainted, Madonna-style bustier and bicycle shorts; the “I love my two moms” and “I love my two dads” t-shirts worn by storefront mannequins. And hell knows whatever else we saw that day in broad daylight.

In innocence, there is tolerance and acceptance. The kids are closely watching how the adults handle it, Erna. And hysteria breeds mass hysteria.

and you of course don't need any further education do you sully?---must be nice being so superior---we grovel at the feet of your vast intellect.

Thank you Sully. I just thought I would add a side note about the author. Also the link was flawed so maybe this one will work better

Michael Reagan is the son of President Ronald Reagan. He is the founder and chairman of The Reagan Group and president of The Reagan Legacy Foundation.

Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com http://www.newsmax.com/Reagan/Boy-Scouts-Gay-Pedophilia/2013/02/11/id/489778#ixzz2KhvIHNs8

Thanks Donna!

Did you check and see if other travel agencies had that information available? Call Triple A and ask them. Or just call them.

So far, two responses and neither one takes up the challenge.

Anyone else want to dive into this cesspool and take the topic head-on?

I won't blame you if you don't.

Didn't know it was a challenge. You asked a question and got a couple answers.

The information they have on there site is readily available at this site.(www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm) By the way the information lists females also just in case you missed it.

Lots of sites GAY or Straight add information that can be found elsewhere. You research any other sites?

@Gary Shouldn't we also be considering School Teachers and Coaches and was to monitor or Ban them. Also parents that abuse there children Have heard fAR MORE Cases of abuse by these people then gays. perhaps the Boy Scouts is rethinking there decision for lack of info.

... and THAT is why this is my least favorite topic...

It's like discussing abortion. The details of the discussion are revolting.

I am paying attention because very few people are willing to stand between our children and the social engineers who are recklessly implementing their politically correct agenda without considering the consequences.

liberals love NAMBLA.

they want to break it all down to where there's no right and no wrong. then, everything, including men having anal intercourse with young boys, will be acceptable.

that is one of the goals of liberalism, which we know is a disease.

Dan, are you speaking of the Catholic church? Sounds right on.

Yeah, I'll start wearing ashes on my forehead again and quit eating meat on Fridays when Pope Benny tells us all he knows about clergy sex crimes & cover-ups.

Bravo Sully. Only problem is your wasting your time and energy here. You might as well be trying to reason with a parrot.

Right on, Sully! Science has always been the enemy of the ignorant. That's why they stay ignorant. Donna M. is correct. Civility, reason and facts will never encourage the same from the ignorant. But thanks for your brave attempts to educate them.

@ Gary I bet you think Fred Phelps is rational and agree with him.

Frank, this isn't a scout troop orientation meeting. We're talking about human beings' civil rights.

But you can turn off the mute button now and go back to watching Honey Boo-Boo if you must ...

This is a little broader than that, Frank. It's not just about the boy scouts, but about civil rights, and discrimination. Your last name is Lopez (I assume). With that kind of name, just think of how much discrimination you could face. Lopez- that's not Amurican; can I see your papers please?

Mark, how true.That is the irony here. Unfortunately, by the time this debate stream ends, those scouts will be senior citizens. The kids may adjust their way of thinking, but it is the adults who rarely do.

Really? i didn't know that. How incredibly ironic.

Bottom line... God's word (the God to whom the Boy Scouts are supposedly doing their duty) is unchanging. Who's gay, who's not gay, and how kids and/or seniors feel about being gay is irrelevant. The Bible is clear, has always been clear, and will always be clear - sin, including homosexuality, separates us from God. If the Boy Scouts want to drop doing their duty to God, or redefine who God is, then they can open the flood gates on what they consider to be acceptable behavior.

but how do we know what god said? the book to which you refer was written over centuries by a group of people who spent years wandering in the desert. who knows if they wrote it correctly? who knows if it is truly the word of god or the word of the then governing body of the wanderers?

if you believe people, all of them, are created in god's image, then did he or she not create the gay and lesbian people? why would god condemn what god created?

how to explain evil? if god is all powerful, there would be no evil. if there is evil then god is not all powerful.

none of it holds together logically. then of course there is the argument about why is this piece of the bible so important but the other pieces about not mixing fabrics or milk and meat are not so important. who choses which ones are sacrosanct and which may be discarded.

maybe the fabric one is more important than the lying with man one? god has not told us.

if you choose to believe in any religion and its tenants, that is your business. but do not force all others to do so.

Richard, as a Catholic I'm having a difficult listening to a lecture about our "duty" to God regarding homosexuality.

If you need to use the Bible as an excuse to be a bigot, just be clear about it.

Mark... what does being catholic have to do with anything? Do Roman Catholics believe in the Bible; as a "catholic", do you believe in the Bible?
Gary... the evidence for the reliability of the Bible is overwhelming! If you are interested, let me know and I can point you to some great resources!

Mark, don't you love the way Richard would not capitalize "Catholic". You do know that right behind their first place hatred of Jews ("their" meaning fundamentalists- usually the biggest hypocrites on this earth) is their second place hatred for Catholics, don't you?

The evidence for the reliability of the bible is overwhelming? Really? I'd like to see an example of this overwhelming evidence and also that the bible is so clear. Maybe God created YOU with no free will of your own, but for most of us, we've figured out the bible is not 100 percent literal. Thank God for that.

Nearly 5 years later, Sully, that "Clinging to their guns & religion" line never looked more spot-on.

It's pretty easy to be a Keynes basher, history has proven the failed theory over and over again. Just look at the most recent example, the Obama stimuli. Not sure what a neocon is, but based on your nonsense it sounds like you listen to some fringe extreme nut jobs who cite Koch brothers and such frequently. Here is something you and they probably missed yesterday.

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-viewpoint/021213-644194-obama-growth-record-is-worst-in-60-years.htm?p=full

Nice link McCloud. Jeffrey Anderson has been writing that same op-ed since Sept. 2011, and it still didn't get Rmoney elected.

Yeah, kind of makes you wonder how Obama won. For worsts, Obama leads in most catagories, yet he got reeelected.

Kind of makes you wonder why in every thread that Mac turns the conversation to Obama - even the blurb about the asteroid. Mac, you sure are obsessed with this hatred for your president. Do you actually do anything during the day that does not involve hating Obama?

McClown...Speaking of the asteroid thread...did you notice how the Patch yanked your 'blue' comment? LOL. I am tellin' ya man...keep that mind (?) ABOVE your belt. You reveal too much of your twisted self with comments like that one. We don't need to be privy to all your demented thought patterns now do we. Thank you Patch censors!

Well darn it, J.S., I must've missed that one. Bummer.

It seems that those who work at or watch Fox et al. were the only ones who thought Romney would win (in a landslide too). That's what happens when you make up poll results just because you don't like what they're all showing. It's easy to see how McCloud could be confused.

Wikipedia:
The Boy Scouts of America (BSA), one of the largest private youth organizations in the United States, has policies which prohibit atheists, agnostics and "open or avowed" homosexual people from membership in its Scouting program as directly violating its fundamental principles and tenets. BSA has denied or revoked membership status or leadership positions for violation of these foundational principles.

So if you break into someone else's home or embezzle millions of dollars from the firm where you work, it's still okay to be a scout leader. If you cheat on your wife or rape someone of the opposite sex, you can still be a scout leader. However, you better not be gay and you better believe in God. Got it.

No one is saying they can't discriminate. The message is they should not, and that doing so causes harm in a variety of ways.

If you are trying to say acceptance and equal treatment under the law as required by the constitution is what caused the downfall of Rome, you need to try again. Same sex marriage, allowed before the rise of Christianity, was outlawed in Rome in around 300 AD. Using your logic, you would have to assume it was the persecution of gay citizens in Rome that led to the downfall.

You don't call a kid gay until he comes to that conclusion for himself.

Many know at an early age while others don't come to grips with their sexual orientation till much later. Even once a person has come to that conclusion, prejudice keeps many in the closet for years and even decades. Severe prejudice in many areas still results in needless death for those who have been taught it would be better to be dead than gay.

And not all fraternities exclude gay brothers.

They can exclude anyone they want because they are a private club.

They can exclude black kids and leaders too, as they did in the old days. The questions include, should they?, and should they receive public funds if they do?

Many believe the answer to both questions is no. Those who are discriminated against should not be expected to help fund their own discrimination through public funds.

Many churches who support the scouts also support full inclusion of gay scouts and leaders. While religious belief is a choice, sexual orientation is not.

We also know that discrimination also results in stigmatization, demonization, and dehumanization. That prejudice results in harm in a wide variety of ways. Is harming others needlessly a scout value? It that moral?

The vast body of evidence since the early days of social science shows prejudice causes harm in a wide variety of ways. Laws, social policies, social support systems that deny equality contribute to a social climate promotes prejudice. The resulting dehumanization and demonization is used to justify their behavior by those who bully, beat, torture, and kill. It also results in self destruction, both fast and slow.

The same prejudice used to dehumanize us here is also used around the world to justify imprisonment, torture, and death. The only way to end prejudice is to expose it and the harm it causes, anywhere and everywhere it surfaces.

Prejudice is a deadly disease that can only be cured through education and understanding. Let's remember Jesus told us the most important thing we need to know is; we should love God and love all others the same. All other religions as well as non religious ethical belief systems agree with that one idea. Now is the time to put it into practice.

"The 2005 Jamboree cost taxpayers approximately $8 million." according to your resource.

Additionally; "The Boy Scouts enjoy special privileges from the Department of Defense, including funding, facilities, organization, advertising, and incentives in hiring for their Eagle Scouts," said Jason Torpy

That does not include funding they get from state and local governments, including (sometimes) free use of public buildings others must pay for.

Again, this amounts to those who are being stigmatized by discrimination, funding their own discrimination and stigmatization.

With a quick search of "ancient gay marriage" (or similar), you will find same sex couples were recognized around the world at various times and places, including in Christian ceremonies, even after they were banned by Rome around 300 AD. "A same-sex union was known in Ancient Greece and Rome,[2] in some regions of China, and at certain times in ancient European history.[3] These same-sex unions continued until Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire."...
"Numerous examples of same sex unions among peers, not age-structured, are found in Ancient Greek writings." (and there is much more)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_same-sex_unions